Post by CTGull on May 19, 2017 5:06:34 GMT -5
I apologize in advance for this document. It will be over the head of 99% of Yamaha enthusiasts. It's meant for someone who has some guitar repair experience, or maybe someone who has some woodworking experience and is crazy enough to try one. It took months of writing and editing to precisely detail every step I did to remove the necks of (45) vintage Yamaha FG's. I've completed (15) other dovetail neck resets and (11) bolt on neck resets.
A neck reset is not a trivial repair; it requires a precise plan, the right tools, accurate measurements and calculations, attention to detail, and flawless execution. And a certain amount of interest in the unknown. A neck reset on a 40+ year old guitar brings a whole new level of unknown - the method and glue they used to attach the neck.
I've written a 17 page (narrow margin, single spaced, no pictures yet) guide to resetting the necks on vintage Yamaha FG's. It lists (in detail) the tools, parts and steps required. Since I have limited experience with neck resets, someone may have a better way than mine, but mine is proven on vintage Yamaha's. I did extensive research online and picked the brains of a few luthiers before attempting a neck reset. Yamaha FG's, at least the (34) I've taken apart, are not put together with some "Asian Mystery Glue". In most cases they used regular hide glue, but they used too much of it. And the neck pocket isn't directly below the 15th fret, it's 1/8" to 3/16" toward the heel.
BUT!! In last year I've removed the necks of (2) FG-335's, A FG-336SB, a FG-345 and a FG-75-1 and found they were attached with epoxy! The dreaded epoxy!! So it is probably safe to say models made from 1976 on where built with epoxy. While it is a bit harder to remove the fretboard, they didn't use much epoxy in the joint (except for the FG-75-1), mostly at the bottom. It was more difficult than hide glue, but not impossible.
Speaking of luthiers, I have to give thanks to Bryan Kimsey, who's brain must be nearly picked clean with all the questions I've asked him! He's a great guy and incredible luthier, specializing in repairing vintage Martin's.
I'm a Tool Designer by trade, so I design, detail, and build many of my tools. Along with original tools, I've copied or improved many things sold by Stew-Mac. I'll be sharing them eventually.
The current version (v2021.2), dated 2/1/21, is available --> HERE
Additional note added 1/21/18 - Previously I struggled to put the original 15th fret back in after a neck reset. It is extremely difficult because you have no way to hold it straight while tapping it in. And it has to be perfectly centered for it to look right. On this FG-170, after 3 attempts and it flipping over and chipping the fretboard, I gave up and bought some fret wire that was as close as I could find, LMII's FW-74. I used feeler gages to open the fret slot up to .020. I cut a piece of fret wire 1/2" longer than I needed, giving me something to hold onto with pliers. It tapped in without too much problem. Then, knowing by the specs the FW-74 wire is .003 higher, I used my fret rocker and found the FW-74 was higher than I thought. I forgot to measure it, but I had to file quite a bit off of the top, leaving the fret looking quite flat. The medium crowning file didn't do to much to improve it. I'll probably get the small fret file and hope it rounds it over closer to the look of the Yamaha fret wire. BUT!! For the future, since I can't find fret wire close enough to Yamaha's, the next best thing is to use Yamaha's fret wire!! The next guitar in line to have the neck removed for a neck reset is a 12 string FG-230. At the 15th fret, the FG-170 is 2.06" wide, and the FG-230 is 2.38" wide. I'm going to refret the FG-230 and save the good frets to replace the 15th fret on other FG neck resets.
Additional note 1/28/18 - BUT!!!!! I found the frets on the FG-230 are DIFFERENT than the ones from the other 5 FG's I've done. The tang is .030" vs. .020" for the other FG's. It's possible the 70's FG's use different frets than the 60's models. I have a 1967 FG-150 that I will eventually do a neck reset on. Maybe I'll find another 60's FG to check.
Additional note 8/15/18 - While doing a neck reset on a 1970 FG-180 I found the 15th fret ALSO has a .030" tang! Earlier this year I did a neck reset on a 1971 FG-180 that has .020 tang frets. Somewhere in between, they must have changed the fret specs. I have 2 other Red labels in between I need to check. The difference should be noticeable on the side of the fretboard.
Additional note 3/11/19 - I took the neck off of a 1977 FG-335 (White label) this weekend. The first 3rd generation neck reset I've done. Getting the joint to release was difficult. I was about to shut the steam off when it popped. Oversteaming is bad! Looking in the joint there wasn't much glue, but there was something GREEN!! Although there was some brown glue too. At the bottom of the dovetail and a little at the top on one side. It's definitely NOT HIDE GLUE!! It must be the rumored epoxy! The other problem is the joint was mechanically very tight, after steaming most of the dovetail surfaces were dry. No glue on the face of the heel or side of the guitar.
Additional note 11/2/19 - I took the neck off of a 1980 FG-345 and again found the green mystery glue. It was not difficult to release, but the heel cap did not separate from the binding as hoped and I buggered up the binding.
Additional note 11/5/19 - I wrote a 1 page summary (it's now up to 1.5 pages)of neck removal notes, available --> HERE
Additional note 9/30/20 - I've written Part 2 - DIFFICULT Neck Removals, available --> HERE.
Additional note 2/2/21 - I did a major update. Lots of changes/additions to show my current process.
A neck reset is not a trivial repair; it requires a precise plan, the right tools, accurate measurements and calculations, attention to detail, and flawless execution. And a certain amount of interest in the unknown. A neck reset on a 40+ year old guitar brings a whole new level of unknown - the method and glue they used to attach the neck.
I've written a 17 page (narrow margin, single spaced, no pictures yet) guide to resetting the necks on vintage Yamaha FG's. It lists (in detail) the tools, parts and steps required. Since I have limited experience with neck resets, someone may have a better way than mine, but mine is proven on vintage Yamaha's. I did extensive research online and picked the brains of a few luthiers before attempting a neck reset. Yamaha FG's, at least the (34) I've taken apart, are not put together with some "Asian Mystery Glue". In most cases they used regular hide glue, but they used too much of it. And the neck pocket isn't directly below the 15th fret, it's 1/8" to 3/16" toward the heel.
BUT!! In last year I've removed the necks of (2) FG-335's, A FG-336SB, a FG-345 and a FG-75-1 and found they were attached with epoxy! The dreaded epoxy!! So it is probably safe to say models made from 1976 on where built with epoxy. While it is a bit harder to remove the fretboard, they didn't use much epoxy in the joint (except for the FG-75-1), mostly at the bottom. It was more difficult than hide glue, but not impossible.
Speaking of luthiers, I have to give thanks to Bryan Kimsey, who's brain must be nearly picked clean with all the questions I've asked him! He's a great guy and incredible luthier, specializing in repairing vintage Martin's.
I'm a Tool Designer by trade, so I design, detail, and build many of my tools. Along with original tools, I've copied or improved many things sold by Stew-Mac. I'll be sharing them eventually.
The current version (v2021.2), dated 2/1/21, is available --> HERE
Additional note added 1/21/18 - Previously I struggled to put the original 15th fret back in after a neck reset. It is extremely difficult because you have no way to hold it straight while tapping it in. And it has to be perfectly centered for it to look right. On this FG-170, after 3 attempts and it flipping over and chipping the fretboard, I gave up and bought some fret wire that was as close as I could find, LMII's FW-74. I used feeler gages to open the fret slot up to .020. I cut a piece of fret wire 1/2" longer than I needed, giving me something to hold onto with pliers. It tapped in without too much problem. Then, knowing by the specs the FW-74 wire is .003 higher, I used my fret rocker and found the FW-74 was higher than I thought. I forgot to measure it, but I had to file quite a bit off of the top, leaving the fret looking quite flat. The medium crowning file didn't do to much to improve it. I'll probably get the small fret file and hope it rounds it over closer to the look of the Yamaha fret wire. BUT!! For the future, since I can't find fret wire close enough to Yamaha's, the next best thing is to use Yamaha's fret wire!! The next guitar in line to have the neck removed for a neck reset is a 12 string FG-230. At the 15th fret, the FG-170 is 2.06" wide, and the FG-230 is 2.38" wide. I'm going to refret the FG-230 and save the good frets to replace the 15th fret on other FG neck resets.
Additional note 1/28/18 - BUT!!!!! I found the frets on the FG-230 are DIFFERENT than the ones from the other 5 FG's I've done. The tang is .030" vs. .020" for the other FG's. It's possible the 70's FG's use different frets than the 60's models. I have a 1967 FG-150 that I will eventually do a neck reset on. Maybe I'll find another 60's FG to check.
Additional note 8/15/18 - While doing a neck reset on a 1970 FG-180 I found the 15th fret ALSO has a .030" tang! Earlier this year I did a neck reset on a 1971 FG-180 that has .020 tang frets. Somewhere in between, they must have changed the fret specs. I have 2 other Red labels in between I need to check. The difference should be noticeable on the side of the fretboard.
Additional note 3/11/19 - I took the neck off of a 1977 FG-335 (White label) this weekend. The first 3rd generation neck reset I've done. Getting the joint to release was difficult. I was about to shut the steam off when it popped. Oversteaming is bad! Looking in the joint there wasn't much glue, but there was something GREEN!! Although there was some brown glue too. At the bottom of the dovetail and a little at the top on one side. It's definitely NOT HIDE GLUE!! It must be the rumored epoxy! The other problem is the joint was mechanically very tight, after steaming most of the dovetail surfaces were dry. No glue on the face of the heel or side of the guitar.
Additional note 11/2/19 - I took the neck off of a 1980 FG-345 and again found the green mystery glue. It was not difficult to release, but the heel cap did not separate from the binding as hoped and I buggered up the binding.
Additional note 11/5/19 - I wrote a 1 page summary (it's now up to 1.5 pages)of neck removal notes, available --> HERE
Additional note 9/30/20 - I've written Part 2 - DIFFICULT Neck Removals, available --> HERE.
Additional note 2/2/21 - I did a major update. Lots of changes/additions to show my current process.
