Post by CTGull on Oct 9, 2018 20:12:19 GMT -5
UPDATED 6/2/24 - With the retirement of the people that owned LMII, the fretwire (FW-74 & FW-75) I've recommended for years is no longer available. I bought some extra before they closed, but there's a possibility in the future I will have to buy something similar from another company. At some point I will update this page.
UPDATED 6/27/20 - I recently realized the tips of my dial calipers were worn and all the fret tang numbers are off slightly. I've updated the table to reflect what I’ve remeasured.
With every neck reset I’ve done I’ve measured various dimensions of the 15th fret, which were removed to be able to inject steam into the neck joint to remove the neck. They were all the same until I removed the 15th fret from a 1969 FG-230. It had a much wider tang (the part that is driven into the slot in the fretboard). .030” wide vs. .020”. Since it was the first FG-230 I has seen I thought maybe the heavier FG-230 neck got heavier tang frets. Until I did a neck reset on a 1970 FG-180, which had the same .030” tang frets.
While the .020” tang frets are the same as modern frets, there is nothing even close to the .030” frets. The closest I’ve found are .024”.
I also found the fret slots are .018”/.020”, checked with feeler gages. Then I found fret manufacturer’s recommend using a .023” fret saw for installing .020” tang frets. That way the fret isn’t putting pressure on the slot, the tang studs hold it in. I previously used feeler gages in .001” steps to force the slot open to .020” to be able to get the 15th fret back in. But I’ve found the modern .020” frets fit fine, I’ve never seen any back bow from the frets being too tight, possibly because the old thick mahogany necks are very stiff.
A .024” tang fret fits into the slot for a .030” fret without any interference, although the tang may hold them in. For the (1) FG-230 I did a full refret on, I elected to use water thin super glue to glue the frets in, just in case.
As usual, curiosity got the best of me and I attempted to contact everyone who’s contacted me to see what with tangs their guitars have, including a PDF template of both tang sizes to compare to theirs. Nearly half the people responded but unfortunately not all understood what I was looking for. And in some cases the lacquer on the neck partially fills the end of the fret slot, making it unclear what the actual tang width is.
I did get enough data to determine that the .030” width tangs were used starting January 1969, and they probably used up the last of them in the first month or 2 in 1971. Why, we’ll probably never know. Whatever the reason, the change must not have had the desired result and they went back to the .020” tang frets. Adding another mystery to the Yamaha legacy.
I’ve spent a “few” hours looking for vintage Yamaha FG replacement frets. There are far more fret options than I imagined. Quite a few for the standard .020” frets, but very few for the .030” frets.
Like my Neck Reset guide, the following table won’t be of any interest to 99% of vintage Yamaha FG owners, but may be valuable to anyone who needs to replace some or all of the frets on their FG and doesn’t want any surprises.
The more I research Yamaha FG’s, the more little surprises I find. Many of them will remain a mystery due to the language barrier and information being not recorded or lost in the last 50 years.
If you have any comments or questions feel free to contact me in the forum or email to YamahaVintageFG@gmail.com.
PDF version of the table below. yamahavintagefg.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Vintage-Yamaha-Frets-REPLACEMENTS-v2020.6.pdf
UPDATED 6/27/20 - I recently realized the tips of my dial calipers were worn and all the fret tang numbers are off slightly. I've updated the table to reflect what I’ve remeasured.
With every neck reset I’ve done I’ve measured various dimensions of the 15th fret, which were removed to be able to inject steam into the neck joint to remove the neck. They were all the same until I removed the 15th fret from a 1969 FG-230. It had a much wider tang (the part that is driven into the slot in the fretboard). .030” wide vs. .020”. Since it was the first FG-230 I has seen I thought maybe the heavier FG-230 neck got heavier tang frets. Until I did a neck reset on a 1970 FG-180, which had the same .030” tang frets.
While the .020” tang frets are the same as modern frets, there is nothing even close to the .030” frets. The closest I’ve found are .024”.
I also found the fret slots are .018”/.020”, checked with feeler gages. Then I found fret manufacturer’s recommend using a .023” fret saw for installing .020” tang frets. That way the fret isn’t putting pressure on the slot, the tang studs hold it in. I previously used feeler gages in .001” steps to force the slot open to .020” to be able to get the 15th fret back in. But I’ve found the modern .020” frets fit fine, I’ve never seen any back bow from the frets being too tight, possibly because the old thick mahogany necks are very stiff.
A .024” tang fret fits into the slot for a .030” fret without any interference, although the tang may hold them in. For the (1) FG-230 I did a full refret on, I elected to use water thin super glue to glue the frets in, just in case.
As usual, curiosity got the best of me and I attempted to contact everyone who’s contacted me to see what with tangs their guitars have, including a PDF template of both tang sizes to compare to theirs. Nearly half the people responded but unfortunately not all understood what I was looking for. And in some cases the lacquer on the neck partially fills the end of the fret slot, making it unclear what the actual tang width is.
I did get enough data to determine that the .030” width tangs were used starting January 1969, and they probably used up the last of them in the first month or 2 in 1971. Why, we’ll probably never know. Whatever the reason, the change must not have had the desired result and they went back to the .020” tang frets. Adding another mystery to the Yamaha legacy.
I’ve spent a “few” hours looking for vintage Yamaha FG replacement frets. There are far more fret options than I imagined. Quite a few for the standard .020” frets, but very few for the .030” frets.
Like my Neck Reset guide, the following table won’t be of any interest to 99% of vintage Yamaha FG owners, but may be valuable to anyone who needs to replace some or all of the frets on their FG and doesn’t want any surprises.
The more I research Yamaha FG’s, the more little surprises I find. Many of them will remain a mystery due to the language barrier and information being not recorded or lost in the last 50 years.
If you have any comments or questions feel free to contact me in the forum or email to YamahaVintageFG@gmail.com.
PDF version of the table below. yamahavintagefg.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Vintage-Yamaha-Frets-REPLACEMENTS-v2020.6.pdf
